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View Full Version : The Great Firewall of China


slam
02-16-2006, 08:35 PM
so i've been closely following the latest stories regarding the great firewall of china, a set of internet protections that allow the country to tightly control which sites and information its residents can view.

the other day, congress held a little 'meeting' with reps from yahoo, google, microsoft, cisco, and others about the way they do business in china. all of the companies have landed themselves in some hot water lately; google for excluding some results from their searches within china (for example, an image search of 'tiananmen square' won't pull up the iconic photo of the man standing in front of the tanks); yahoo for disclosing the identify of a political dissident who had posted unkind things about the chinese government, so that they could arrest him and put him in jail; microsoft for actively taking down any blogs on its service that china doesn't like; and cisco for providing detailed instructions to the chinese government on how to use its routers to track down internet users.

initially, i bought into these companies' logic that acess to more information was a good thing, even if some of the information was restricted. after all, isn't some of google better than none of it? but one of the congressmen at the 'meeting' was a holocaust survivor, and brought up the analogy of IBM doing business with nazi germany, producing computers that allowed the germans to track lists of jews to be sent to the concentration camps.

congress is threatening to force american IT corporations not to do business with human rights violators, such as china, or at least not make concessions to them. they brought up a good point: isn't the value of having google in china enough to make the chinese let it remain open? does china really desire to reimplement the work that yahoo, google, microsoft, and cisco have already done?

probably not. but the problem for american corporations is that they know that if they don't make the concessions, another corporation will, and rake in the potentially billions in revenue that is likely to be made in the long run in china. so i say, go ahead congress, regulate what these IT companies can do. self-regulation never works, as the almighty dollar is all that shareholders, and thus corporate entities, are even allowed to think about.

still, i think it's funny that there is all this ruckus regarding google et al, while oil companies, soft drink companies, car companies, and countless other industries are allowed to deal openly with governments and organizations that have far worse human rights records than china...

JVO
02-16-2006, 09:45 PM
I have been following that story also. What I don't understand is how in the world are they able to take out every single post that China has a problem with?

If I post,

"The Chinese are fucking RED Communist Bastards."

does that mean that B2P will not be available to the Chinese? Do they do searches on key terms (like Communist Bastards) and elliminate whatever they find? What about images?

Seems like there will be a lot of things that can get through if the author is sly about his/her verbage.

What a major pain in the ass!


I think a happy medium would be that the search engines are allowed to sell to the Chinese, but without any modifications. Then make the Chinese be the ones who do the censoring. I guess there may be problems with that, since the search engines would have to give proprietary information to the Chinese government so that they were able to make changes.

Is Internet available in Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran? I wonder if the country censors the info or did the company that they bought it from (yahoo, google etc.) do the censoring?

larryhead
02-17-2006, 09:01 PM
The Chinese internet will remain censored whether Google et. al. plays along or not. However, I think the fact they're still using Google, even if in limited capacity, is a good thing rather than creating all this new technology themselves that would have absolutely NO chance of getting around the censors. Or on a larger scale, could potentially segregate the internet into a free net and a "red" net. However, it does put these companies in a dangerous game of international politics.

Also, I think in this day and age, if Chinese surfers want to view certain info on the web, it is there and they will figure out a way around the censors to find it. There is now a whole generation of Chinese that grew up with the net... they are not fucking newbies.

I mean really... they are trying to censor the entire fucking Web??? Not possible. Stuff will slip by.

slam
02-17-2006, 09:11 PM
As far as I know, the firewall simply blocks access to certain web sites that the Chinese government deems inappropriate. Obviously, this kind of 'blacklist' censorship is only going to be of limited success. It's just impossible to maintain such a list. I remember that at one point, the Columbia MO music board, comomusic.com, was on the Chinese block list. Who knows why?

There are plenty of methods for Chinese web surfers to circumvent these blocks... but as some guy on the radio was saying the other day, there's a lot to be said for 'default' behavior. If the default searches don't include some results, how often will people even know that they need to go searching for the ones that don't show up?

In general, though, I think Google is the least of my concerns in this mess. I'm far more horrified by the acts of Yahoo and Microsoft and Cisco, who are helping the Chinese officials actively track down dissidents so that they can be jailed, tortured, etc.