Nation of Fear

[Soul Queen]

So as I was riding the train home today I had some thoughts...

I have been reading Hunter S. Thompson's Kingdom of Fear--In it he mentions the Death of the American Dream (Was there ever one?) and how we live in a society where we have to be paranoid of one another. His main discussion was about drug laws and how the police can search with little evidence or based on unsubstantiated accusations.

This brought some thoughts to Michael Moore and his Bowling for Colombine-We kill one another because we are afraid of one another.

Then I was thinking on how our whole human civilized society is based on FEAR.

For example.

Life insurance-fear of not leaving enough for the family and them tossing your corpse in a ditch
Health insurance-fear of astronomical bills when the artery goes.
Auto insurance-fear of some dumbass smashing the shit out of your car.
HIPPA-Fear of someone invading your privacy.
Firewalls-Fear of someone taking over your computer.
Credit protection-Fear of someone stealing your identity.
Legal Waivers-Fear someone is going to sue you.
Gated communities-Fear someone is going to break into your home.
Home security-Much like the above.
Religion-Fear that you really are responsible for every single one of your actions. It is a chaotic world.
Jobs-Fear of no shelter or food.
Media-Are you afraid enough.

I am sure that more can be thought of. Has humanity evolved because of fear? Are we bipedal because we needed to run away from the tigers? Maybe our brains are just large because we create fear and then have to create solutions to our own problems.

Is the whole beauracracy of government is to keep the fear in check? Sign all of these million pieces of papers, here, here and here. Don't forget to sell your soul for the illusion of peace of mind.

Any thoughts?

[Diamond Vision]

SQ-

are you part of our Atlas Shrugged book club? The philosophy of the looters... "Fear is the only practical means to deal with people." p.604

I think America is definately kept on edge by/for the benefit of our govn't. but I don't think that fear is the neccessity of invention. There are other ways to motivate people, from a leader standpoint, other than fear however if the people being driven hate what they do for a living, the best way to keep them there is make it impractical for them to leave... feeling unable to meet all their insurance needs if they left and unqualified to do anything else. You can see those symptoms across the board.. from McDonalds employees to stock brokers.

You can also see fear-tactics in our current "energy crisis".. the only crisis is the govn't insists on clinging to fossil fuels as our soul source of energy.

"War on Drugs," "War on Terrorism," "Gay Marriage," "Union-Jack Controvercy," "10 Commandments in the Classroom..." and the list goes on. These are all non-issues that are trotted out into the spot light when the guys in charge are trying to distract the country's focus.

The more I rant the more I expose that I'm one of those wack-o conspiracy theorists... so I'll stop now...

[matty]

I'm afraid right now!

[slam]

i think fear has played a major role in our societal development. i'm afraid of eating poison, so i don't do it. and as a society, we put all sorts of checks into place to ensure that i don't, such as adding labels to poisonous products and teaching us not to store our rat poison right next to the baking soda. it's a survival tool that's proven very effective.

what i think the real problem is these days is rooted in the media and our sudden global interconnectedness. unlike every other generation before us, we're forced to deal almost immediately with problems anywhere in the world, not just our slice of heaven. earthquake in taiwan? well, thats' where all the chips are manufactured, so computer prices go up. unrest in venezuela? oil prices go up and i pay more at the pump. suddenly, there is so much more to fear than ever before, and i just don't think people are coping with it well. and yet, the worse it gets, it seems the more and more that people want to be scared, so we flip on cnn and watch the tragic tales coming out of new orleans. maybe we just like to put our fears into perspective by watching truly awful things happen to others.

i guess no one ever tells us that we don't need to be afraid of anything that we used to (are red m&m's safe again? can i swim in the ocean without getting eaten by a shark? if i go to aruba will i be given e at the club and then murdered?), so we just assume every new fear that's laid down on us is valid. if people found out that some of the things they had been afraid of were just lies or distractions, maybe they'd learn how to figure out what's important to really be afraid of.

[zero2056]

I guess you could describe some of those as fears, but really... its just survival. A portion of the population is deviant and doesn't conform to what is the norm. In order to not become prey of the deviant, you enact some of the items you had listed above. Other items listed above are just basic tools to provide a higher chance of survival.

Firewalls/Virus Protection -- Protect from the inconvenience of somebody royally fuckin' up my comp (our at least from the second tier shit... if somebody actually wants to screw ya over, they will)

Jobs -- hrmm... no... just a function of the world we have created for yourselves... not being able to feed/shelter yourself is a very real and natural fear and directly relates to surviving in the modern world

Health/Life/Auto Insurance -- All survival tools

I think gated communities are more along the lines of not having to deal with the common folk, and popping wood at the idea that you live in a gated community.

All in all... don't agree with the post, I 'spose. I think all of the items listed are there more for survival purposes (even Religion, which is of zero importance to me could be argued as the survival of the soul, for those who believe).

I don't know much about Hunter Thompson (other than Johnny Depp helped pay for his ashes to be shot off in a rocket). Not a fan of Michael Moore... he's like the Pat Robertson of the Left... hurts the Left's cause more than he helps.

[JVO]

Ever read the book "Fear and Trembling" by Kirkagard (sp?)? It is all about how fear is a motivating factor in the life of all beings. Kirkagard says that because we feel fear there must be a God that we fear retribution from. In a way fear is the opposite of faith, yet they are also the same thing. In new age philosophy many authors preach that there are really only two emotions that living creatures are able to feel: Love and Fear. Every emotion is just a combination of these two root emotions (like primary colors). There is also a common thread in philosophy that pleasure and pain/love and fear is the same thing. I tried to explain this to DP one day with no avail, but after 4 years of philosophy I think I finally bought into it. For nearly anything that you can think of that is painful, you can find somebody who derives pleasure from the exact same thing. Also many pleasure/pain fear/love instances completely depend on circumstances (which is not reality but perception). For instance if you are making love to someone you know and love, the experience can be very pleasurable and full of love, yet if you were given some memory loss pill and put in the same situation (except you had no memory of the person) you may feel pain and fear instead, despite the fact that the situation is exactly the same. Because the only thing that is different is what you bring to the situation that means that the two emotions are the same thing in and of themselves (a priori). Sounds crazy, but I think it is mostly true. Pretty interesting either way.

[JVO]

Another good author on the topic of fear is Thomas Hobbes. Like SQ said he believed that civilization was formed as a way to cancel man's inherit need for war. We have laws to counteract the "perpetual state of war" that mankind would have during anarchy. Interestly, Hobbes was completely fucked up on drugs for his entire life. He was so scared of society and people that he became a shut-in for several decades. In many circles his philosophy is considered unimpeachable and many philosophers who followed (including Kirkagard) took Hobbes for bible truth, yet he was completely screwed up in almost every possible way. Rock Stars and Philosphers have the coolest lives.

[Soul Queen]

[quote="JVO"]Ever read the book "Fear and Trembling" by Kirkagard (sp?)?

I have not, but I think that it sounds really interesting. I like to read philosophy so I will have to check it out. I've read alot about Buddhism. It talks about how emotions rule our every action. The goal is to step away from the emotions. Really humans are just meat bags with chemical reactions running around. Reacting to the triggers of the world.

It seems silly to me that our emotions, that are so transitory, can influence the structure of such paranoid society. These develop into paranoid habits. In which everyone has to follow to function in a "normal society".

I do think it has to do with the population being too large. Maybe people, even though we are naturally social creatures, shouldn't share too much space with one another.

To Diamond Vision: I have read Ayn Rand-(sorry for the horrible spelling). Anyway I have read the Fountain Head and I enjoyed it very much. Sometimes she is a little long winded, but enjoyable. I need to check out her other books.













People existed for thousands of years without all of the crap

[JVO]

I don't know if population is a determining factor or not. I would be interested to have Americans and Chineese take a mental health test and see who is "healthier". I personally think Chineese people living in China are the craziest people on Earth. Guess I read too many books about the Cultural Revolution. Don't think there are too many countries that are less populated per capita than U.S.

Like Slam said, I think because Americans are in such close contact with things happing throughout our country and our world it only adds to the terror that we all feel.

I agree with zero in his feelings about M. Moore. I have always said that he is the liberal Rush Limbaugh, but I do agree with his sentiments in "Bowling... " the media is to blame for much of the craziness we see everyday. Rarely is there anything positive to be seen on the news. Instead all we here about is how our favorite thing causes cancer and we are all going to be raped, mugged or killed.

[ElRiche]

This is a neat thread. Hopefully, worth reviving.

I have read Hobbes, and Kierkegaard, and Fichte, Schopenhauer, Kant, Locke, Mill, Hegel, Veblen, Aristotle, Bentham, Rawls, Marx, Adam Smith, Von Hayek, Keynes, various sundry sociologists, economist, philosophers, historiographers, etc. Therefore, I am not a master of any of their treatises.

Kierkegaard was interested in the 'Leap of Faith' - the point at which you are worn down to accept that your best interests should be placed in the hands of a higher power, to wit: God or government (the latter is not discussed in his texts, but is a relevant extrapolation). Hobbes and Locke were both concerned with how human systems agglomerate for collective protection and welfare from the natural state of things - which they describe as brutish. What is there to be brutish, if it's not other people? In their times, the greatest threat to humanity was, well, humanity. Interestingly, Hobbes thought that Leviathans (powerful individuals) emerge to which allegiance must be sworn on life-or-death terms. Social contracts. Whatever.

I'd suggest that anyone who wants to read about the 'natural state of things' try Thorstein Veblen. This cat tells it like it is. Bald, unapologetic truths about how humans are. Sure, he had his own problems, and in a sense recanted on, or fell prey to, the human systems he disparaged, but the messages are still worth heeding. He was a sociologist/economist who didn't use many numbers - just observed things.

As for the current predicament, regretfully, fear is something that can be concocted and manipulated. We don't know what to fear beyond our own communities unless we are told what to fear. Within our own communities, just watch the local news to find out what is news worthy - stories that are sensationalized to elevate the fear component. It's a rather natural process. Were it not, then the local news would be celebrating something else. We get what we ask for, and then some.

[bubz_bluez]

of course there is an american dream we are living it.... you cant see it?

bubz

[Soul Queen]

As for the current predicament, regretfully, fear is something that can be concocted and manipulated. We don't know what to fear beyond our own communities unless we are told what to fear. Within our own communities, just watch the local news to find out what is news worthy - stories that are sensationalized to elevate the fear component. It's a rather natural process. Were it not, then the local news would be celebrating something else. We get what we ask for, and then some.

We get what the majority asks for. Which does not always reflect my opinion.

[ElRiche]

We get what the majority asks for. Which does not always reflect my opinion.

It's a bit of both. We get what the majority wants much of the time, but at least some of the time we get what the minority wants. You, Soul Queen, and I are not of the minority that gets what it asks for. Rather, there are other well-placed and entrenched minorities that have 'market power.' Applying that term loosely, I would argue that it includes the power of the dollar and the power of political influence. The former may disproportionately affect the latter. Sometimes, it is in the interests of the established minority to exercise their market power to manufacture or maintain fear - and this is sometimes done for the greater good, and sometimes not.