*

[JVO]

So I just happened to watch Barry tie the record over the weekend before going out on Sat night. To be honest I was happy for barry and happy to see the moment. I have always been somebody who likes to root for the underdog, and somehow this entire fiasco has made Barry seem like a helpless victim, which sort of endears him to me.

Anyway the fans in San Diego were great. The only thing about the moment that disgusted me was seeing Spud Selig in the crowd looking like the complete dumbass that he is.

I was a TO apologist last year, so I might as well be a Barry Bonds apologist this year. Sure Barry is a complete ass, and yes, it absolutely drives me nuts how he uses his family to shield himself from the media. But honestly if I grew up with my father constantly being hounded by the media and constantly being taken away from me by fans requesting autographs in the middle of dinner, chances are I would grow up being very closed off from the fans and the media too. As far as steroids go, the only thing that I can see that separates Barry Bonds from Jim Edmunds or Scott Rolen, is the fact that Barry is still producing without steroids. Jimmy and Scott have hit less homeruns than our pitching staff has. I am sure all MLB fans can look at their favorite team and find players who were probably on the juice. At the age of 42 (or 43) Barry still nearly has many homeruns this season as Albert Pujols (who is almost 15 years younger than Barry). If any one of us were playing MLB during the steroid era what’s to say that we wouldn’t do the exact same thing.

Also if you look at historically remarkable people, I would imagine a vast majority of them are extremely unlikable characters who are selfish and don’t give a damn about anything beyond their passion. It seems a majority of amazingly talented figures that I can think of were very rarely good and decent people. (Wayne Gretsky is one of the few exceptions that I can think of).

So it made me think, who do you hate more Bud Selig or Barry Bonds? For me it is Spud by a mile.
He is the one we should blame for steroids, the players were only doing what they thought was best to improve the careers.

For the record though, Hank Aaron is still the career home run leader in my book, and Roger Marris is still the season record holder.

[duckplucker]

top 10 things i think about barry bonds.

10. he's fat

9. he also stole alot of bases

8. jo buck once told a story on the radio about how bonds was rude to him personally.

7. its cool his dad was a big leaguer too.

6. steroids is cheating

5. go A-Rod

4. * looks like a snowflake

3. if it was a movie... bonds would hit #756 into mccovey cove.

2. why's his head so big?!


1. whooooo cares?! he's not a redbird!!!!!!

[JVO]

Well I stayed up last night (and got drunk) just to watch Barry break the record, and of course he never did. So I have a nasty hang over this morning.

[JVO]

Well there ya have it. Beautiful towering shot to center.

If Spud Selig had as much class as Hank Aaron, MLB would be much better off.

Thank God it's over...those west coast games kill me.

007 - Wassup in San Fran area? You are probably ready to go nuts. Heard enough about Barry yet?

[matty]

So, I'm woefully ignorant of the dramas of baseball, as many of you know. I was looking online to see what the big deal was with Bonds and steroids--is he on steroids or not?? I keep finding completely conflicting opinions on the subject, and there was this shady courtroom drama about it where it seems nothing got resolved.

JVO, Duck--break this down for me in little tiny, easy-to-understand pieces. I don't want to waste any more time researching this online, when I could be reading about that cloned pig.

One more note--as I understand it, which is admittedly cloudy, it doesn't seem fair at all that somebody who set a record by physicality and talent alone should be dethroned by somebody else who uses performance-enhancing steroids. Does that cheapen the game to you baseball guys?

[False Alarm]

little tiny, easy-to-understand pieces.
no such thing, with this shit.

[JVO]

Yeah, False Alarm is totally right. Here is as brief a summary as I could mustard. I am sure FA will correct me if any of this is wrong.

WOW You are asking a lot.

False Alarm, duckplucker, and Andi can probably explain this better than I, but I will try. First of all Barry Bonds has NEVER failed any type of steroid test and he has never been found taking anything illegal or against the rules of baseball (that we know of). BUT, it wasn’t until a couple of years ago that MLB even started testing for steroids. Baseball has an extremely strong Labor Union and a very weak Commissionaire, so the players pretty much ruled the roost for the last couple of decades (and helped to damage baseball in the process). During the period where there was no testing, people estimate that between 30%-50% of players were using some type of performance enhancer. Now, remember that steroids were not tested for during this time, and many performance enhancers were not even classified as being against the rules. It is also important to remember that not only were hitters using the “juice”, but pitchers were also. In fact the pitcher who gave up the record tying homerun to Barry was actually busted for using steroids in the minor leagues. So if a hitter and a pitcher were both using steroids, the two sort of wash each other out. Now the media, the owners, the Managers, the players, and the fans all completely ignored the fact that half of the players were using roids because the game was exploding in popularity, and scores were up. As long as the popularity of the game was increasing nobody felt it was important to stop the roids use.

Now after saying all that, there is no doubt in my mind that Bonds used steroids. If you look at pictures from when he started his career and compare them to now, you can totally see an unnatural change. Barry’s feet grew, his head grew, his entire body structure changed in a very unnatural way. Instead of hitting 25-30 HRs and stealing 50 bases a year, Barry started hitting +50 HRs a year, and could not run to save his life. Either way he was a fantastic Hall of Fame Player, but his body type and the way that he played, changed in a very dramatic way.

Ok the final piece of the puzzle is a corporation in the San Fran area called BALCO. The Head Guy at BALCO (Dr. Conti or Conte) is currently in Federal prison for manufacturing and distributing illegal steroids to athletes and other people without a prescription and for no medical reason beyond improving their performance and making more money. During the Grand Jury, information was leaked that Barry Bonds and Gary Sheffield (another MLB player) both were using a topical clear steroid that you rub on your body. Bonds has repeatedly stated that he never “knowingly” took steroids despite the fact that from his appearance it seems obvious that he did. Also there are many, many ties that link this Conti guy to Barry Bonds. Since there is such a connection it is very difficult to think that Barry did not use the steroids that his good buddy Conti was producing.

There have been 3 grand juries that have been impaneled to bring charges up against Bonds for using illegal substances, but NEVER have any of the Grand juries been able to justify further prosecution. One big reason for this is that Barry Bonds’ personal trainer has refused to testify for the Grand Jury. In fact he is currently in jail for the second time because of his refusal to cooperate. Obviously this is very shady, but still this is the third Grand Jury that they have impaneled and they still haven’t been able to make a case. At want point does this become harassment?

Finally, there is a book written by a couple of reporters from the San Fran newspaper called “Game of Shadows”. Although I have never read this book, they apparently lay out a clear case of Barry’s use of performance enhancing drugs along with detail and specifics. Obviously this book is extremely incriminating.

Another important piece of puzzle is the fact that Barry Bonds is a complete Asshole. Ever since he entered the league he has been a complete jerk to the fans, to reporters, to teammates, to Managers, to pretty much everybody. Even without the steroids allegations, Barry would still be a completely unlikable character in baseball. Barry’s dad, Bobby Bonds, was a great baseball player also, and Barry has stated that he harbors a lot of ill will toward the media because of the way that they treated his dad back when he was a player. There are a lot of players in baseball who had fathers play also, and in almost every case, the son of the player is very cold to the media and to fans.

Yes, the whole fiasco does tarnish the record and the game. I am not sure that anybody could argue otherwise. BUT this is not the first time that people have cheated in baseball. As long as their has been a game there have been players who have worked to exploit it. There are pitchers in the Hall of Fame who made their careers out of throwing spit balls (an illegal pitch), there are hitters who have used corked bats, there are teams who have hired body language experts to steal signs, I mean you name it and I am sure somebody has tried it. Also back in the 50’s and 60’s, a huge number of the players were high on amphetamines. I guess every club house used to have a big bowl of “Bennies” that the players would all chew like candy before a game to give them extra energy during the long season. So cheating and performance enhancers are as much a part of the game as Cracker Jacks, and Hot dogs.

[mrjohnchimpo]

if he's shitty to his fans, why do they cheer him so much?

[JVO]

if he's shitty to his fans, why do they cheer him so much?

For the same reason Baltimore Raven fans still cheer Ray Lewis despite the fact that he was guilty of Obstruction of Justice in a case that involved his two best friends killing someone.

Barry may be an ass, but he is San Francisco's ass (which probably means he gets a lot of action...:pokefun:).

Fans are stupid when it comes to their own players.

[False Alarm]

to be fair, i don't know if any of us (serious sports fans on B2P, i mean) have ever had to choose whether or not to root for a ray lewis on our team. fact is, i think i'd still root for him (or barry, or whoever). i cheer for the name on the front of the jersey--it's that simple. i don't have to like what the players are outside the lines, and in many cases i probably wouldn't.

aren't there some rams fans here? any feelings on leonard little? dude killed a woman drunk driving, but he's a great speed rusher on 3rd down. it ain't exactly ray lewis, but it's probably worse than bonds in the big picture.

[JVO]

Very true...and I am certainly no different. I was thinking about the "worst guy" to ever play on one of my teams and the best I could come up with was Bill Romanowski. I would never defend Romo, nor would I vote for him to be on a Pro Bowl team or the Hall of Fame, but you can bet your ass when he broke through the line and sacked Trent Green, I was the first person on my feet to cheer.

On the other side of the coin is Ray Crocket. From everything I ever heard Ray was a great guy, a leader in the community, and a long time member of the Bronco community, but I rode his ass for over a decade because I thought he was a totally crappy cover cornerback. And the day he was traded to the Chefs was a very happy sports day for me.

[False Alarm]

i hated romo!

i never really saw enough of crockett to decide whether he was any good, but i always got a kick outta crockett's corner when he was in detroit.

[mrjohnchimpo]

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/64929

[JVO]

So there it is: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-bonds-756ball&prov=ap&type=lgns