Men thievery vs. Women thievery

[JVO]

I consider myself to be a keen observer of body language and this blows my mind:

So the last couple of days I have gone to a couple of different colleges and private highschools to determine why we are losing so much equipment. I guess my bosses thought that my life of crime would put me in a good position to catch criminals. Anyway I traveled to 9 schools in 4 states and caught 39 people walking out with items that belonged to us (little stuff like silverware, glasses, plastic table tents etc). Having never worked in retail before I have had little experience with shoplifting before. Going into the process I believed that a majority of the thieves were going to be boys/men. I was astonished to discover that all but 9 of the stealers were girls/women. Also, regardless of race, the men and women were completely different in their methods and in their reaction to getting caught. All of the guys simply shoved what they wanted in their pockets and left, figuring that nobody would notice, nobody would care, or nobody would do anything even if they did care. When confronted the guys would react by simply returning the item with some lame excuse, or they would go off on a 15 minute rant on how unfair our company was and how they were tired of getting screwed, somehow trying to excuse their actions with "life is unfair" excuses. Now that is pretty much what I expected and probably the same way that I would react in a similar situation. Now the ladies, on the other hand, were COMPLETELY different. First of all when they decided to steal something, they would work together as a team, often having one or more of their cohorts try to block what was going on or try to distract people with misdirection. As I watched I could see them completely come up with their complicated scams while they carefully surveyed the room. The reaction of the girls when I busted them TOTALLY BLEW MY MIND!!!! First of all the girls would argue the fact that they stole something despite the fact that I caught them redhanded. They would totally go off on me and try to just beat me into submission with their hysterics. Fortunately I had cameras strategically placed so I would know the exact thing they stole and exactly where they hid it. Once the chicas realized that there was no getting out of it they reacted in a most interesting and telling way. The younger girls of course would just turn red and start to cry (despite the fact that I wasn't doing anything except taking the stuff back and warning them not to do it again). The older girls upon being caught, and this was true 21 out of 25 times, would instinctively grab my arm as close to my hand as possible, take a step to get as close to me as possible, look me in the eye, quickly glance at my crotch, then look me in the eye again, tilt their head, open thier eyes as wide as possible, and smile. 21 out of 25 times, regardless or race, attractiveness, or any other factors, the instinctive (there was not enough time for them to rationally think about this) reaction was to touch me, look at my crotch, and smile. In many ways this got me thinking. How would they react if I were a girl? What if I were an old man? Is this obviously sexual reaction instinctive to woman whenever they are backed into a corner? What does this say?

Have other people noticed anything similiar to this? What about the girls out there? Do you think you instinctively use sex as a way to get out of trouble? Do you realize what you are doing at the time?

My research continues.

[withoutcanseco]

bitches be shoppin'

[slam]

i think i smell a thesis coming on.

did you get to 'punish' the offenders? perform some invasive searches?

[andikay]

Oh, yes, us wimmens is TRICKY.

Watch out!

I totally agree that when women are backed into a corner, our instinctual response is to bargain with sex or the promise of sex. I think women in general instinctually, and usually subconsciously, although sometimes intentionally, use sexual appeal as a way to get out of trouble.

Sometimes it takes us a while to realize we are doing this. Some of us figure it out VERY early in life and use it to advantage (ladies--remember the slut in grade school that you hated because all the boys liked her and would do anything she asked?). Some of us, after realizing what we have been doing, try to control our reaction because it nearly always works, and it seems unfair. It's almost like cheating.

Although I try not to abuse the promise-of-sex card, I'm glad I have that weapon at my disposal in case I really need it. I feel it's our right as women because of all the bullshit we have to put up with.

I'm not really intellectually equipped to have a gender politics discussion, but those are my observations.

[bubz_bluez]

when i found out my ex-gf was sloggin guys at partys ....... she simply tried to make up by sayin she'll do this (which she said she would never do) or illl do that........woman in general will always want to fuck their way out of anything........police stations doesnt matter ........talk to the cops im sure you'll hear some stories

since when has any guy in the history of men fallin for the ill fuck you to make up for me fuckin others

bubz :D

[MigueL]

Good shit all around!!!
A very astute observation JVO. And it seems to me that there is definitely a pattern to this behavior as a whole amongst women and so the question becomes how can we use this knowledge to our equal advantage? I know a couple of people (though no names will be announced) that I feel would greatly benefit from this wise observation. Furthermore I wonder if men would have a chance in hell of pulling that off if they were caught by a women? I would say not, I think it would give her far more pleasure to bust us than let us off for some sex. Then again......?

[professor booty]

I totally agree that when women are backed into a corner, our instinctual response is to bargain with sex or the promise of sex. I think women in general instinctually, and usually subconsciously, although sometimes intentionally, use sexual appeal as a way to get out of trouble.

Sometimes it takes us a while to realize we are doing this. Some of us figure it out VERY early in life and use it to advantage (ladies--remember the slut in grade school that you hated because all the boys liked her and would do anything she asked?). Some of us, after realizing what we have been doing, try to control our reaction because it nearly always works, and it seems unfair. It's almost like cheating.



And as a man, I am, in general instincutally, and usually subconsciously, a sucker for it. At least until the blood returns to my brain, and I realize what's going on.

I think that it is the instinct (or subconscious mind) of men when backed into a corner to rely on the benefits they get in a society that discriminates against women. The same with dominate ethnic groups and minorities. You don't have to consciously support sexism or racism, but many white men do because, when backed in a corner, it is the easiest response.

If white men's jobs seem threatened, they can rely on the logic of women needing to stay at home or being to sensitive to deal with the stress of a real job. Likewise, those lazy, ignorant minorities are trying to take America away from the people who built this country.

In the scenarios that JVO brought up, one could argue that less men took these little things, and took so little care to hide what they did because they operate on the assumption that they already own it and can take what they please. When really pushed, they claim that it is their right.

I think the tendencies of any group are very hard to overcome because we have seen them play out in front of us the same way for a lot of our lives and we end up accepting them by default unless we make conscious efforts to subvert them.

By the way, has anyone else seen the eddie muphy SNL sketch where he puts on white make-up and all the white people keep giving him stuff for free? Classic example and very very funny.

Class is dissmissed.

The professor

[bangg trimm]

Sometimes it takes us a while to realize we are doing this. Some of us figure it out VERY early in life and use it to advantage (ladies--remember the slut in grade school that you hated because all the boys liked her and would do anything she asked?). Some of us, after realizing what we have been doing, try to control our reaction because it nearly always works, and it seems unfair. It's almost like cheating.

Although I try not to abuse the promise-of-sex card, I'm glad I have that weapon at my disposal in case I really need it. I feel it's our right as women because of all the bullshit we have to put up with.
.

i actually hated the "slut girl" too. maybe because she had no sexual hold on me and thus i could see the manipulation quite quickly. i found her bizarre.

hmm.. i have to wonder about the use of [promise of/denial of] sex card by any gender. is it really getting us anywhere in the long run? if anyone wants to complain of receipt discriminatory treatment predicated on sex and sexuality, it seems to me the best step to eliminate manipulative sexual action in one's self first.

don't get me wrong, i understand that i don't understand a lot about the various privileges i hold and the effects of those privileges over time. professor booty is right about that. people tend to blame the victim.
in order to move to a more enlightened society, however, i think it beneficial to really examine the ways we manipulate each other and begin to seek out alternate means of getting what we need.

bleeding heart temporarily stoppered by cheap ass bandage,
bangg

[bubz_bluez]

i think men can pull it off........i personally believe tha woman are more freaky and more horny than men.........

bubz

[Soul Queen]

I believe that the reaction depends on the girl. I don't believe that i would ever behave that way in a situation. I always go with the fuck off attitude.

But I never had any patience with the slutty girl in high school either. Mainly because I felt she always compromised her principles. (Not that she had many).

But I'm one of those individuals that has too high of standards for myself and those around me. ehh.

Guess I never learned the tricks of the trade.

Going back to Bang's thought of examining how we manipulate each other and trying to find alternate ways. I think alot of our reactions are instinctual. Depending how we learned to manipulate our parents. Or how they effectively manipulate people around them. Crying and pouting NEVER worked in my family. Which is why I probably don't behave that way and have little patience for it.

Just my thoughts.

[JVO]

WOW...Great replies!!!!!

did you get to 'punish' the offenders? perform some invasive searches?

No Slam. Although I must admit that the first time it happened for a fraction of a second I did contemplate it.

[False Alarm]

i worked in loss prevention on and off for about four years.

in that time, i had only six busts. best buy had very strict rules for me to follow, so i busted peeps only when i had 'em clean. (most LP guys i worked with were thugs and would break rules to get busts. they'd also frequently get fired.) however, i probably witnessed at least four or five times that many shoplifting/scam incidents in which i let the suspect(s) walk because i was only 90% sure of em.

of my six busts, five were male and one a female. of the incidents that didn't go down as busts, i'd approximate 30 to 40% of 'em were females and the rest males. just adding to the data.

what conclusions to draw? i dunno. that women are smarter scammers and shoplifters than men? generally, i'd say yes. i'd agree with JVO's assertion that they tend to use distraction and smarter, more elaborate schemes than males. (we're talking amateurs here, obviously.) i was a bit surprised by JVO's nearly 2:1 female-male ratio, but i'd believe it, and i do think there are a lot more female thieves than most peeps realize.

as for reaction, none of the men came on to me, and neither did the female. this can no doubt be attributed to my spectacular ugliness.

[JVO]

WOW...Great replies!!!!!

did you get to 'punish' the offenders? perform some invasive searches?

No Slam. Although I must admit that the first time it happened for a fraction of a second I did contemplate it.

I'm glad I have that weapon at my disposal in case I really need it. I feel it's our right as women because of all the bullshit we have to put up with.


I did not even think about this until I read your response, but my best friend in high school was a girl and she was the most non-political person I knew, but the one topic she was very passionate about was Feminism. She thought that the Feminist movement was the absolute worst possible thing that could happen to women. This was the logic she used:

You mentioned that in highschool there is always the "slut" who all of the other ladies hated. According to my friend, this hatred that women have towards "sluts" is one of the biggest reasons why there is no solidarity among women. For men it is entirely different. For example, Ms. Slut is hated by other women because she is outwardly showing that she is attracted to men and it is important to her that she looks appealing to them. Women immediately hate her for this and somehow equate sexiness and "sluttiness" with being stupid. Personally, when I see a sexily clad woman, I do not immediately assume that she is stupid (maybe other guys do? I don't really know). So "Ms. Slut" is hated among women because she is sexually agressive and is not afraid to demonstrate that she may be willing to hook up with someone of her choosing.

Now every high school also has a "Mr. Slut". Usually this guy is an attractive (possibly rich) athelete type who wears the best clothes and has the most confidence with the ladies. As a man, I never hated "Mr. Slut" in fact, I wanted to become friends with him because I knew that there would always be hot girls around him and maybe I could learn some of his tricks. I also never assumed that he was stupid, or had some sort of mental problem that led to him being a slut. In fact, in many ways, I beleived he was much smarter than I, because he was able to get things that I could not. I thought that he was mature and had his act together enough to get ladies to notice him. Also if "Mr. Slut" dresses in a way that he feels the opposite sex thinks is sexy, no man or woman will think less of him. Now granted women generally aren't turned on by miny skirts and halter tops, but if they were I guarentee you men would dress that way. But the opposite is not true. If a woman dresses in a way that she believe men will think is sexy (make up, push up bra, short shirt etc) she is automatically condemned by other women for being trashy and sleezy. So while "Mr. Slut" becomes more popular with men and women alike for being sexy and confident, "Ms. Slut" is condemned by all other girls for being whore. Even now, if one of my single male friends were to hook up with two different girls in a week, I would not think any less of them as a man, nor would I think that they had some sort of mental defect that forces them to subjugate themself to the vagina alter, yet if my sister (for example) had a single girlfriend who hooked up with two different guys in a week, she would be completely horified. Why is there this difference? Why are women so much harder on each other than men are?

I think your quote above is 100% true. Women should be able to use sexuality as a way to obtain power. Why not? Why do feminist think that this behavior is counter-productive to the Woman's Movement? And doesn't the fact that they condemn this behavior show that in some respects they are anti-woman. Our individual sexuality is one of the most important things in making up who we are and to tell women that should somehow be ashamed of this or revolt against it, seems both counter-productive and degrading. That was the point my high school friend had, and after hearing it and thinking about the millions of things my 3 sisters got because they were attractive and able to wrap men around their fingers, really made me think that she was correct. Women are able to acheive power over men by using their sexuality. Why on Earth should they be condemned for this behavior? What do you think?

Furthermore I wonder if men would have a chance in hell of pulling that off if they were caught by a women? I would say not, I think it would give her far more pleasure to bust us than let us off for some sex.

I wondered about that too. I would say no too, but maybe we are both wrong. Not sure I would have the nerve to try to pull it off. I'm not too big a fan of getting slapped!

And as a man, I am, in general instincutally, and usually subconsciously, a sucker for it. At least until the blood returns to my brain, and I realize what's going on.

Yeah that was my exact reaction!

In the scenarios that JVO brought up, one could argue that less men took these little things, and took so little care to hide what they did because they operate on the assumption that they already own it and can take what they please. When really pushed, they claim that it is their right.

Interesting! Going to have to think about that for a bit.

hmm.. i have to wonder about the use of [promise of/denial of] sex card by any gender. is it really getting us anywhere in the long run? if anyone wants to complain of receipt discriminatory treatment predicated on sex and sexuality, it seems to me the best step to eliminate manipulative sexual action in one's self first.

I think I agree with this, but sex has become such a complete part of our culture, that there is no way this will ever happen.

But I never had any patience with the slutty girl in high school either. Mainly because I felt she always compromised her principles. (Not that she had many).

How does acknowledgement and desire of sex drive and sex compromise her principles? Even if she was not interested in sex, but only in getting her way, how does this compromise her principals? Seems like it is simply a good way to get power away men. And why do you beleive a sexually agressive woman automatically does not have principles? Also what about "slutty" men, do you think that by nature they are morally inferior to "prude" men?
Is a "slutty" lesbian any more or less principaled than a "slutty" hetrosexual girl? Should a woman who feels comfortable and confident being "slutty" restrain herself? Why? Isn't this a way of degrading women, by telling them that they have to act in a certain way to be principled.

Depending how we learned to manipulate our parents.

Celestine Prophecy baby!! I think this true for sure. I think the fact that your immediate family is almost entirely made up of women, meant that using normal female ways of acheiving power had no effect so you had to develop new ways. If you were the only girl and had four brothers, I suspect you be completely different in this regard. Don't ya think?

[Soul Queen]

WOW...Great replies!!!!!

But I never had any patience with the slutty girl in high school either. Mainly because I felt she always compromised her principles. (Not that she had many).

How does acknowledgement and desire of sex drive and sex compromise her principles? Even if she was not interested in sex, but only in getting her way, how does this compromise her principals? Seems like it is simply a good way to get power away men. And why do you beleive a sexually agressive woman automatically does not have principles? Also what about "slutty" men, do you think that by nature they are morally inferior to "prude" men?
Is a "slutty" lesbian any more or less principaled than a "slutty" hetrosexual girl? Should a woman who feels comfortable and confident being "slutty" restrain herself? Why? Isn't this a way of degrading women, by telling them that they have to act in a certain way to be principled.



I personally feel that manipulating people in any way is wrong. So manipulating men or women for the offer of sex does in my book lowers my opinion of them. I believe that its one of the lowest manipulation tricks in the book. So to me it doesn't seem that they have a high standard of principles. Wasn't there another way to go about the situation. Acknowledging that one did something wrong and just own up to it?

I don't have anything against sexually free people. More power to them. There is a fine line between sexually free women and the women who use it to get what they want or to get out of situations.

Its one thing to be attacted to someone and want to have sex with them. It's another to have sex just to get out of a situation. Or the promise of sex. It could get you into ugly situations depending on the people involved. I don't believe that anyone likes it when they have been used. Unless everyone goes into the situation knowing its a non emotional, fun affair.

Its a fine line. People always go to far. As with most ideologies in life, Politics, Religion...Feminism,

[JVO]

I agree with all of that. Although what if a girl uses her sexual prowess to entice a man to give her stuff. Is this manipulation? As long as the girl gets the free stuff and the guy gets the sex was this a form of manipulation? It seems more like a negotiation to me. Now certainly I would never be a part of this type of relationship (1 because I am broke and 2 because I find golddiggers to be very unattractive), but I am not sure it is manipulation. Is an escort being manipulated (assuming there is no pimp) when she has sex with a john for an agreed amount of compensation? Is the john being manipulated? Or is it just a financial arrangement that satifies both parties? Is being a prostitute for a living worse morally than a bill collector or telemarketer who capitalized on the questionable senility of the elderly? I don't know. Manipulation is one of those things that is almost impossible to define.

[larryhead]

I agree with all of that. Although what if a girl uses her sexual prowess to entice a man to give her stuff. Is this manipulation? As long as the girl gets the free stuff and the guy gets the sex was this a form of manipulation? It seems more like a negotiation to me.

No, that's called Dating. :D

[MigueL]

Great Posts Everyone!
I was thinking about the globality(I think I made that word up) of this situation and believe that this must be something that happens everywhere. Well I guess I should say everywhere where woman are permitted to do so. I also have been thinking that there is no limit to the manipulation or exploitation of this by women the only limits that exist are those mandated by society. If society allowed women to bear breast when they saw fit, and to their advantage, I’m sure some would do it.

[bubz_bluez]

gold diggers are unatractive....... their very easy to spot you can end it with them almost right away........i will not give in to that bullshit why should buy you shit sometimes you dont even give it up........and dont say im not tryin shit im workin it

bubz

[professor booty]

What an interesting can of of worms you've opened, JVO!

In reading the discussion up until now, I have a few responses.

One is in relation to the slutty girl in high school. No doubt, several of us are thinking of certain slutty girls in common because we went to the same high school. Upon reflection, their use of flirtation or sexual power was not a position of lasting strength in my estimation. Where are these sluts now? Where will they be when they are old and wrinkled?

I have known a few truly smart sluts, and had a chance to get to know a couple of them even better(in the name of science and college fun). These women were crafty, but their craft evolved and they were able to narrow the field in the use of their womenly wiles to a few men in their lives, and not just people who busted them. They were not dependant on it, like stupid sluts, whose power fades early. These were enjoyable people to be with and they made many a man happy while still keeping some principles. I believe it was duckplucker who once said, "I like sluts--some of my best friends are sluts."

I think that it is possible that the slut, in trying to use her attractivness to others, will value what others think of her instead of developing her own self worth. This is weakness, and can comprimise any person from holding real power.

It is also possible that women who have opted to develop hemselves in many other ways than the use of sexual power may devalue the use of sexual energy in myriad situations because they see sluts as undermining the things that they have put so much work into earning. This can become rigid, frigid and unattractive (to me, at least) if a woman is so obsessed about what other people think about sluts and won't shut up about it. This too can be weakness, because of the control the woman gives over to the sluts.

Let me end my piece here by saying that I am much more comfortable writing about the use of sexual energy willy-nilly than I am actually doing it. It is entirely possible that I think and write so much because it keeps me out of situations that I could not handle with all kinds of kinky, kinky sluts getting me to give them expensive things to make me feel like a man.
I do think that sexual energy can manifest between two people and enrich them both, without them ever having to do the nasty, but that is rarely seen in the movies. Chick flicks about long periods of sexual tension and yearning always end in the tragic death of the dude and dude flicks end in the crass culimination of adolescent fantasies of a getting laid because you, say, caught a hot chick trying to steal something and she wanted to change your mind.

Good night!

[JVO]

Sing it Professor!

I think something Prof. brought up goes along the lines of what I was thinking. I suspect that as women get older (and men too for that matter) they become more confident in other aspects of their character other than sexual attractiveness. If they are not able to develop these other characterists, their actions probably become more and more extreme as time takes it's toll on their outward appearance. Women who are able to make this transition are probably the ones who are the most successful. Not only do they retain the ability to help themselves through non verbal physical communication, but they also develop the skill to help themselves with intellectual and emotional communication. I think anyone who can marry all three of these forms of communication become a powerful force in the universe.

Also Madre, do you think if we lived in a society in which nudity was allowed (bare breasted women...He He He...oops sorry about that) that it would increase a woman's ability to use sex to her advantage, decrease a woman's ability, or that it would stay the same. I tend to think that it would remain the same. For one thing almost no one has a "perfect" body, and I think that the fact that we wear clothes in many respects greatly increases the number of people who are considered attractive. I am sure we have all seen people who appear to be very attractive when they are dressed nice and well kept, yet when you see them in a situation where everything is gone but their body, you realize they really are not nearly as physically attractive as you thought. I am sure this is true with both men and women equally. Also I think part of what attracts people to one another is not only what they can see, but also what they can't see. The urge to discover burns deep inside all of us.

[bubz_bluez]

and I think that the fact that we wear clothes in many respects greatly increases the number of people who are considered attractive ---JVO

im not sure how to take that.......
my oppion dont set yourself up for failure........date big booty bitches tell you find someone a set up.......dont date down date up ....... i have dated several hot females but they all turned out to be phsco,gold digger,skanky

so my moto is dont turn down a big booty bitch

bubz

go ahead hate my philosophy

[duckplucker]

sluts are good. if not for the sluts, alot of us would never get laid. when i was younger i was a boy slut.

i think its obvious that women will use thier sexuality to get stuff. i would too. if i was a woman i would be lying on my back right now. i would never have worked one single day in my life. i'd just get some man to give me every thing i wanted for sex. you girls dont know how good you've got it. if i had the chance to be born again as a female, i'd do it in a heartbeat.

you can trade booty for anything.

isn't that right, professor?

i think its too bad that a sexually aggressive woman is looked down upon in our society. everyone should just mind thier own business.

i think its really sexy when a girl lets me know that she likes me. i mean when i'm single and stuff ... that is

[withoutcanseco]

ah, that's another good point. why do chicks always seem to go for you when you're dating somebody else.

sluts are great. without sluts, who would dance in our strip clubs?

[slam]

why do chicks always seem to go for you when you're dating somebody else.

that's simple. when you're dating someone, you assume that cool, confident, "i don't care how hot you are, i got a ladyfriend" demeanor.

irresistible.